7 4 July 7th.
Adam Price set out seven reasons to vote for the Red green deal. He says that its easy to vote no to things but harder to vote yes. It will be impossible for supporters of the "rainbow" to vote yes for the rainbow on Saturday because Adam and friends have made this impossible. Therefore we have to vote no to the "red green" proposal.
Here are seven reasons to vote no:
1. A Parliament and the future of devolution.
The incompetence of the Labour assembly government threatens the whole devolution project. A new Plaid led government would breathe new life into politics in wales and give us a real chance of winning the referendum. The biggest boost to our chances of course is if there is a Tory government in Westminster as more Labour activists will support a parliament. If Gordon Brown wins another term Labour MPs Lords etc will lead the fight against a parliament unless we are running a successful government we will lose.
2. To lead not follow.
Looking at countries that use PR and usually have coalition government a very clear patten emerges. You either lead the government or opposition or take on the role of a junior partner. if you become a junior partner you are stuck with that role. Your party never grows very much and you have no chance of ever leading a government. The evidence is that if Plaid backs the Red green deal we will NEVER get the chance to lead a government. Do we see our future as an adjunct to the Labour party with an ever weakening negotiating position? We should either lead the government or the opposition.
3. The policy programme.
In terms of the things that Plaid wanted the two programmes are very similar. One Wales offers more on housing but under the "Rainbow" we could have taken an axe to the huge number of bodies in the Health Service and local government leeching money from front line services. Another six months to a year in opposition would give us the chance to re-vist the All wales accord and sort out the costings. One Wales offers some nice rhetoric on halting privatisation but the Tories could never have got any privatisation plans through a cabinet dominated by Plaid and the Lib dems.
4. Do you want a Tory V Labour fight in 2011?
Handing the Tories the role of chief opposition is idiotic. The public will see a Labour government in all but name fighting the Tories. We will vanish from sight. Although most of our vote will stay loyal whatever we do we need to hold onto the "anti Labour" vote and the protest vote that will either switch to the Lib dems, peoples voice or stop at home. Opting for the Rainbow would have kept Wales a Plaid Vrs Labour fight as would remaining in opposition.
5. Its time for a change.
When the negotiations started Rhodri Morgan said an opion poll should be held to see what was the preferred option of the public. An ICM poll showed that the Rainbow was the preferred option. Going against the grain of public opinion is sometimes essential in this case it serves no useful purpose.
6. Lack of stability.
Proponents of the deal claim the Lib dems are unstable, cannot be trusted and may have a new leader within a year. The Lib dem assembly group and special conference voted for the rainbow and they served for three years in a coalition despite huge divisions in their ranks.
Who will be first minister in 2009? We dont know as Rhodri Morgan is standing down. All Labour have to do is string us along for two years then their MPs can get a first Minister of their choice. Under Labour's bizarre election process MPs have a huge say in picking the first minsiter. We can bet they will pick an anti Plaid one to dump us now they have divided the "Rainbow" partners thus ensuring the survival of a Labour minority government after 2009.
7. Building the movement.
For Plaid to achive its objectives we have to build a broad based movement that can appeal to all who make their home in Wales. Becoming a small ultra-leftist adjunct to the Labour party will not enable us to do so. A Plaid led government would show the people of Wales that whilst we care deeply about the language, Trident missiles etc we can make a positive difference for everyone who lives in Wales.
Here are seven reasons to vote no:
1. A Parliament and the future of devolution.
The incompetence of the Labour assembly government threatens the whole devolution project. A new Plaid led government would breathe new life into politics in wales and give us a real chance of winning the referendum. The biggest boost to our chances of course is if there is a Tory government in Westminster as more Labour activists will support a parliament. If Gordon Brown wins another term Labour MPs Lords etc will lead the fight against a parliament unless we are running a successful government we will lose.
2. To lead not follow.
Looking at countries that use PR and usually have coalition government a very clear patten emerges. You either lead the government or opposition or take on the role of a junior partner. if you become a junior partner you are stuck with that role. Your party never grows very much and you have no chance of ever leading a government. The evidence is that if Plaid backs the Red green deal we will NEVER get the chance to lead a government. Do we see our future as an adjunct to the Labour party with an ever weakening negotiating position? We should either lead the government or the opposition.
3. The policy programme.
In terms of the things that Plaid wanted the two programmes are very similar. One Wales offers more on housing but under the "Rainbow" we could have taken an axe to the huge number of bodies in the Health Service and local government leeching money from front line services. Another six months to a year in opposition would give us the chance to re-vist the All wales accord and sort out the costings. One Wales offers some nice rhetoric on halting privatisation but the Tories could never have got any privatisation plans through a cabinet dominated by Plaid and the Lib dems.
4. Do you want a Tory V Labour fight in 2011?
Handing the Tories the role of chief opposition is idiotic. The public will see a Labour government in all but name fighting the Tories. We will vanish from sight. Although most of our vote will stay loyal whatever we do we need to hold onto the "anti Labour" vote and the protest vote that will either switch to the Lib dems, peoples voice or stop at home. Opting for the Rainbow would have kept Wales a Plaid Vrs Labour fight as would remaining in opposition.
5. Its time for a change.
When the negotiations started Rhodri Morgan said an opion poll should be held to see what was the preferred option of the public. An ICM poll showed that the Rainbow was the preferred option. Going against the grain of public opinion is sometimes essential in this case it serves no useful purpose.
6. Lack of stability.
Proponents of the deal claim the Lib dems are unstable, cannot be trusted and may have a new leader within a year. The Lib dem assembly group and special conference voted for the rainbow and they served for three years in a coalition despite huge divisions in their ranks.
Who will be first minister in 2009? We dont know as Rhodri Morgan is standing down. All Labour have to do is string us along for two years then their MPs can get a first Minister of their choice. Under Labour's bizarre election process MPs have a huge say in picking the first minsiter. We can bet they will pick an anti Plaid one to dump us now they have divided the "Rainbow" partners thus ensuring the survival of a Labour minority government after 2009.
7. Building the movement.
For Plaid to achive its objectives we have to build a broad based movement that can appeal to all who make their home in Wales. Becoming a small ultra-leftist adjunct to the Labour party will not enable us to do so. A Plaid led government would show the people of Wales that whilst we care deeply about the language, Trident missiles etc we can make a positive difference for everyone who lives in Wales.
posted by cymrumark at 12:02 AM
11 Comments:
"Is their vision of an independent Wales one in which the state controls every aspect of life? Or is it the one the rest of us share where a government ensures basic needs are met, cultural and language diversity is encouraged,that there are not huge gaps in wealth between individuals, that the market is policed effectively and the environment protected. The vision that all in Plaid can sign up to and not just socialists."
This will not happen - we will not get state bureaucracy which to me is also an anathema. There is a new dynamic at work. Your hopes will come to pass, have no fear.
There is no going back now, and both conferences will decide "yes" for the good of Wales. You will see that it is the only way ahead.
Time for you to come to us, CymruMark. You don't like the alliance of two socialist parties and you say you're an ex-Liberal, so it's time to go blue. I know you'd feel at home.
I will prepare a longer response when I have time - but listen to blue horizon. You know it makes sense.
Blue Horizon
I think if you knew me better you would know that I could never join the Tories nor would they have me :)
Alan in Dyfed...
"You will see that it is the only way ahead" ...well yes in the sense we have been denied a proper democratic choice.
I respect the people in my party who dont want a Plaid led government but want us to push Labour in our direction. People talking about historic change realignments etc are just naive...Labour will eat us for breakfast.
Be fair, the Welsh Conservatives have changed haven't they? You were keen on joining up with them in the Assembly, so why not go the whole hog.
why not go the whole hog.
Do you want an independent Wales? Thought not.
I genuinely cannot foresee a Labour versus Tory 2011 election.
It is unlikely that any Party will ever get a majority in the Assembly for a generation or longer, and so Parties will find themselves having to tell the electorate before the election who they are prepared to work with.
Perhaps if that idea had been applied in May 2007 then we wouldn't be in such a mess now. If the Labour & Plaid coalition goes according to plan and runs the whole four years, who knows it could be a long-lasting marriage in government beyond this Assembly term.
Ross
yes thats a possibility. It would threaten the credibility of the assembly as with no real choice turnout would plummet...the Plaid vote will drop due to the public perception of a Labour Tory fiught. Plaid having opted to behave like a third party will become a third party. As we would never serve under Tory leadership our negotiating position with Labour will weaken with each passing election.
Nice to see you and Ann Jones agreeing on something!
Nice one David. Not sure Ann and I will ever beon the same side:)
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